What is a Christian?
According to the World Methodist Council faith-sharing New Testament (sitting in a seminar):
A Christian is a person who believes that the living God is revealed in and through Jesus Christ, who accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, who lives in obedient communion with God through the Holy Spirit and who takes his or place in the community of Christ's church.
Discuss.
11 comments:
Mmmmm... so what do you call someone who on a good day (or bad depending on your worldview ;-) )believes that the living God may possibly be revealed in and through Jesus, who despite their best efforts often disobeys God and who wouldn't have a clue where their place was in a church so fractured it could hardly be called a community?
That's not bad. If I were to add one thing, it would be a bit more about the cross and what the work of Christ achieved (what it means to accept that) - I think that is one of the truly unique facets of our faith; grace over works and all that. I guess you could say it is there in the use of "Saviour", though.
Of course, I'm sure you are completely suprised that I would come out with such a left field suggestion.
descriptive in contemporary christian language, but may not easily include those Christians who find themselves outside of typical Christian communities.
Ian, I'd be interested to know how someone might feel excluded by the definition Brett has put forward. Can you unpack that thought a little?
What definition would you offer that might be more inclusive for those people?
Its not that I don't think the definition has value. It is the act of formalizing a definition of a "Christian" that seems backwards. It is simply the process of categorizing people as "in" or "out." I think Jesus spent very little time concerning himself with these categories/definitions. If there is any criticism it is directed towards the intent of the original blog post.
Been out of circulation and coming to the discussion late. Jack and Ian - in both cases are you assuming that "in or out" or place to belong relates to a specific local church expression?
I belong to one church - it is expressed in a local church but i don't believe that's the only forum for that expression.
Maybe this post is church?
For me 'community' implies a togetherness or oneness that I dont see reflected by the Christian community whatever shape their local church may be - be it being a member of an online discussion group or of Destiny. My other problem is with the 'obedient' bit - can you explain what 'obedient communion' means? If it means that Christians obey God well I'd have issues with that too. Cheers, J
@ BJ
i like that...maybe this post is church. something worth unpacking more for sure.
The church is its own best and worst advertisement. I find it a very difficult connundrum. Where I have come out on it goes a bit like this:
Church is process. It's God's grand experiment. Can people move from an obsession with self to an equally fanatical devotion to the needs of others? I think that means that church is often messy, unfinished and even abusive of people. But my experience is that its people who hurt people - organisations don't hurt people.
On the other hand people can sometimes do amazing things for one another and have a sense of concern for others that seems to transcend the human condition. The oneness idea, Jack, which I warm to.
But to come back to the definition, at the heart of the bit about taking place in the community of the church, for me that means putting myself in a place of learning to love others, alongside others learning to love others. And my regular experience is that I will be let down as much as I am loved, and undoubtedly I do the same.
I don't exactly know what obedient communion means! Is it about intent to act consistent with a relationship of "following" Jesus?
Interesting thoughts BJ, hadn't thought of it as God's grand experiment before -guess that seems a bit, well experimental - for a God that is all knowing etc. I like the idea of the challenge of moving focus from self to others, but we try to do that with our kids (and ourselves!) just within our family yet wouldnt describe ourselves as 'church'. I also like the description of church as messy and unfinished but I'm still dwelling on the statement that organisations don't hurt people. I think organisations are what give people the power to hurt others.
And thanks for the honesty re the 'obedient communion' - intent seems far more real. Anyway thats enough ramblings from me, have a great weekend, J
Well it's certainly a bit risky...
I think you're onto something about family. God's nature is community - the Trinity. So when He creates in his image, he creates community:
Male and female he created them...
Be fruitful and increase in number...
The first community created in God's image. The biological family.
The body of Christ is another example of community being at the heart of God's desire for what he creates. Its an important example, but is family any less important a forum for transformation to play out in?
It occurs to me my earlier comment also applies:
"I think that means that [family] is often messy, unfinished and even abusive of people...On the other hand people can sometimes do amazing things for one another and have a sense of concern for others that seems to transcend the human condition."
Family as church?
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